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maxmod

S13 Silvia Sports sedan

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Hi Guys,

 

I thought it was time to post a bit about my car and some photo's i will take more as we go.

 

First a bit about the car it started off in 2009 as a running track car with a ca Turbo motor producing 190rwkw's. When servicing it one day we discovered a crack in the strut tower where the brake line goes through. My mechanic came around and decided that instead of just patching it and welding it up we should totally strip the car seam weld it and improve the cage. I thought thats an awesome idea! Wrong !! 4 years later and i have thrown countless dollars at it and haven't driven the car since.

 

Alot has happened along the way the car doesn't look like much but alot of thought and head scratching went into it at this point and there is now no engine.

 

Since tearing the car apart we removed the CA for an Sr20, i was originally going to run under 2lSS with a restricted turbo however the motor i purchased was 20thou over and they weren't happy with that. That was basically the end of my Under 2Lss idea even though i purchased another standard Sr20 it wasn't the same again.

 

After deciding to go for a bigger and better class we spoke to Speed works and he basically told us that the sr20 to do what i wanted to do wouldn't hold together reliably in his opinion. I know a few of you will disagree but thats ok as far as i am aware no one here does hour long races with 500bhp sr20's. The part that really killed it though was that i would have had to done a tear down on the motor every 3-4 meetings and inspect everything potentially do bearings etc.

 

I had thought about an sr20vet but after finding out to do what i wanted to do would cost me $45-50 thousand dollars thats for intercoolers turbos manifolds full bottom end, head, computer and tuning. This was then likely to kill my rb25 gearbox so id need to upgrade that so there is another 5-10 thousand. This was money i didn't have and it didn't solve Tony from speed works telling me the blocks aren't realiable at that power level. I'm not saying it can't be done i am saying it can't be done on a reasonable budget.

 

This was when i started looking at other engines there was only 1 engine for the job i was looking for a light engine that produces good power is under 6000cc's. There is surprisingly few that fit this bill.

 

VQ35HR twin turbo i was about to go through with it too but i couldn't get any responses out of the states about having the engine and turbo gear sent over. That combined with i totalled the numbers up and it was close to $45,000 again still would have made a good amount of reliable power.

 

So the car is now onto its 4th Engine and hopefully final engine.

6L L98 all alluminium V8.

It weighs fully assembeled around 20-30kg's more than the sr or roughly what the VQ weighs. The motor is lower than an sr when dry sumped and doesn't sit any more forward of the front wheels.

 

I am having Chris From SRE engines or Spencer race engines build me the motor it will have:

Billet Crank

SRP pistons with total seal rings

srp pistons with total seal rings

clevitte bearings for conrod and main

new cam bearings

ported l98 heads by SRE cnc ,stainless valves

pac double racing springs

SRE custom billet camshaft solid roller

t and d shaft rockers

.080 hardened pushrods

felpro gaskets mls race head gaskets

new solid roller lifters

engine machining inmcludes

bore and or torque plate hone 6 ltr max

balance engine assembley

blueprint with data sheets

deburr block and align rods check side clearences

line hone if needed

pre assemble for correct deck heights

engine final clean and assembly to long.

Dry Sump System

 

The cam is going to be in the 240-250 area good for running Jenvey ITB's

 

We are looking for around 600-650bhp

 

Gearbox will be A Hollinger 6 Speed H pattern MMMMM!!

 

So to Recap Sr20 with 500BHp and 975kg minimum weight if i could get the car to that weight with me in it which i doubt i could. Power to weight would be .232

 

With a 600bhp V8 and 1125kg minimum weight which should be much easier to get to i could have to add balast power to weight is .241

 

With 650bhp v8 and 1125kg minimum weight power to weight is .262

 

Combine my far superior power to weight ratio with the much quicker gear changes of the hollinger and i should be alot further down the road.

 

The engine builder is providing a dummy block so i can start assembely i just have to find a chev to hollinger bellhousing so i can start my assembely process.

 

My Goal isn't to be the fastest Sports sedan there is because it won't happen i haven't got the budget my plan is to build a very quick car thats very reliable and once finished doesn't require thousands and thousands of dollars every few meetings on maintenace. Basically have fun!

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why go holinger and stick with a H pattern ?

 

if i was to go holinger ill be going sequential

 

im running a RB25 gearbox with a cut and shut bell housing with PPG gearset its amazing how strong this combo is and i dont think ill ever upgrade it unless i was going holinger sequential

 

have purchased 3 holinger sequential for customers and its amazing just sitting shot gun while they are pulling on the gearstick

the gear cut is so fast u cant even notice the engine cutting out for the gear change

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Unfortunately i don't have 16-18 thousand to spend on a Sequential hollinger thats a rebuilt second hand unit.

 

The 11,000 i spent on a freshly rebuilt FPR H pattern was probably pushing my budget further than i wanted to push it.

 

If you look at the costs an Rb25 with a PPG gearset is a waste of time when a H pattern hollinger costs just as much as is better built faster changes and it isn't a compromised road box.

 

My entire gearbox setup will cost me around 12,000 thats with a clutch gearbox hydrualic throw out bearing etc.

 

My current Rb25 gearbox conversion cost me $5000 that's without paying for labour and that hasn't got the gearset in it so add another $4-6 thousand for the gearset and your at 9-11 thousand i think it's definetely worth that little bit extra for the hollinger.

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Sweet!

 

i'm currently building a sil80 with a 6.2L LS3 in it :) running a Tremec TR-6060 box.

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So what are you doing with the dual master setup?

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Awesome if its in i would love to see how it sits and measure some things up if that was cool with you? Lach88

 

Mase Hopefully keeping it i am hoping with the dry sump the engine will be able to sit bellow all of that that could change though but yeah thats my plan.

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I plan on test fitting the engine this weekend, i'll grab some pics and measurements for you :)

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This is wicked! Sooo glad you decided to start a build thread!

Keen to see this thing turn some laps in anger! I bet you can't wait either, nothing like building it and then driving it.

 

I think you made a good choice with engine and gearbox.

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I thought you wrote in Cabs's build thread the dual master setup was no good? That's why I asked. I have one, just haven't finished building the car yet.

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Oh yeah I did but like I said I think as long as you change the pedal ratio it should work just as we'll as a pedal box. I'm hoping there will be enough pedal to adjust the ratio but ill have to asses where my engine will sit first anyway. I may just have to remove it.

 

Thanks lach and nismoman ill take some more pictures soon.

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Followed this build for a while on the U2LSS forum.

 

Good to see the progress you've made.

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Thanks,

 

I picked up the holinger yesterday! It's amazing how small the gearbox is even if you remove the bell housing from an rb25 gearbox the rb25 box is still bigger.

 

I'm hoping to get a bell housing by next week then I can buy the flywheel choose my clutch and throw out bearing. The engine builder has a spare dummy engine for me to start making mounts and things.

 

Hopefully more pics in a couple of weeks

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Serious build, look forward to seeing it progress and more importantly get out on track!

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Since my engine is being built and due to funds is probably going to take until around July i am considering doing something fairly drastic to what looks like a pretty complete shell.

 

I am considering copying Dai Yoshihara's S13

 

The parts that i would like to copy are the front crush section i'd do it a little different i don't like that the cage goes right to the end of the rail for example. If an impact was to get to that area that has the potential to cause some fairly serious chasis damage further down the path. My cage being totally welded in vs his bolt in sections this may not be as big an issue for him. So my thoughts were i would bring the front cage section around 200-250mm before the end of the rail allow the rail to absorb the impact and hopefully not damage the chasis a great deal. It sounds strange using your rails as a crush section but my cars essentially stiff enough i could run without the rails and i would still bet it's stiffer and stronger than a factory car.

 

The Rear i would basically copy accept the rear of my cage is going to be triangulated alot more to add more stiffness into the rear when removing the rear guards.

 

I will have to take moulds of my rear quarters which this was originally my intention when i bogged the guards however mid way i decided i couldn't be bothered. This will also give me the option of making 100mm wide wide guards which to my knowledge aren't available currently the car has 50mm flares.

 

With the new motor and drivetrain it's likely ill need to run 13" wide Slicks

 

Diff i think i will also copy Dai and go for the Winters Quick change IRS diff, it looks like my only option really as i need 3.25 , 3.5, 3.75 possibly even taller as well for short tracks. I know Nissan have the all but the 3.25 i will need for Phillip island my 6th Gear is 1:1.

 

What do you think should i do it? It will set back the project a little bit but it's already been 3 years so i figure what the hell may as well make it more like a proper race car. Not that it isn't already there are alot of little details most won't notice.

 

Mase i solved the Dual master issue and Bought a pedal box i'll take photo's soon it was an unused item from a friends project it only cost me $400 and it's excellent quality and comes complete with braided lines brackets to mount the reservoirs even the adjustable bias control knob.

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if you're prepared to wait a few more years then go for it but I think unless you start working on this full time, you're looking at another year or two. It depends how long you want to wait. I gave up and just wanted to get to the track and figure i'll make the improvements/changes as I get time in between races.

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This is what I started doing. I just adding to the project. Eventually I hated the car and just started getting it back together. I'd much rather drive mine than work on it continuously and keep throwing cash at it. But hey if thats what you want go for gold!

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I definitely am going to do the front we have already marked everything out it shouldnt take too long to replicate. The rear however ill have to decide on based on how long it took to do the front and make the rear moulds. The problem I have is sports sedans like to lean on each other and currently I have little to no protection for that.

 

I do see what your saying I got to that point where I just wanted it to be finished. I got over this though I'm not trying to achieve the perfect car anymore all I'm trying to achieve is one that when finished gives me as much as possible anyway trouble free motoring.

 

I realised that by just wanting it to be finished and not caring about the end result I was going to end up with something that would likely be unreliable and cause me more grief long term.

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Are you doing a 1 piece front end? Don't sacrifice on reliability at all thats for sure! I just started doing things like a full tube front end for no reason at all now I look back at it. Sure it looks good but hey I could of just passed the cage through to the front struts and it would of been more than enough. Still the build looks unreal and if were to copy the above s13 it would be unreal! Its almost worth having two chassis ha ha

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By 1 piece I assume your asking if I'm going to space frame the front end? If so no that's far too much work for a debatable gain.

 

I did consider it but decided against it due to the work it involves and not having a jig or flat floor/ bench to build the front end from.

 

Ill just be copying the basic design of Dai's front end so it's still a floor pan car but its essentially a space farme within the floor pan.

 

The main idea though is to make the car totally rebuildable and virtually indestructible other than the areas we design to fail.

 

The car will be capable of 300-3300km/h depending on diff ratios at Phillip island so I need the car to crumple to some extent to prevent me dying from the rapid deceleration.

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Yep. That would be my plan of attack if I had my time over again.

 

The car will be capable of 300-3300km/h depending on diff ratios at Phillip island so I need the car to crumple to some extent to prevent me dying from the rapid deceleration.

 

Good to see someone else actually worried about safety!

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Safety is defientely the highest priority shortly followed by going fast.

 

Let the cutting begin!

 

I have trimmed back everything other than the front rail joiner this will be going once i have done the bar work.

It will be replaced with some square tube.

 

You can see the alluminium tube i bent up as a template of where i want the top bar to go. Hopefully this will get bent up sometime this week if i can escape work to take it to the cage builder.

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Even though you've decided to go with a tube frame chassis style i thought i'd show you a pic of the ls3 sitting in a regular engine bay.

 

i'm getting my tr6060 box early next week and will grab a pic of it all mounted up and stuff :)

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Yeah cool that looks good it's certainly coming along good luck with it.

 

Nah it's an obp pedal box from England they are pretty cheap and the quality is exceptional. The nice thing is it comes with prefab bed kick plates all braided lines a mount for the remote reservoirs and the reservoirs and it costs less than $1000 landed. I paid $400 it's never been used but it came from a friend it was definitely a bargain.

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wow this is looking awesome mate! love the colour!

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Thanks,

 

I hope it should be progressing fairly quickly now assuming i don't loose interest.

 

It's taken so long that i actually don't like the colour as much as i first did but that's ok it's getting repainted anyway.

 

The guards have to be cut off and widened another 50-60mm in the rear to cover 17 x 12" rims and the front's the same.

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nice build mate, good to see a few proper silvia race cars being built atm.

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Hey Guys,

 

I've made a few purchases recently and will be uploading with some progress photo's of the front bar work hopefully during the week.

 

I just purchased a Speedway engineering Quick change IRS Diff it's a Spool so no single peggers ever!

 

My radiaotor it's EX nascar its massive and wouldn't fit without cutting your rails back but that's ok since that's what im doing. It looks barely used and it's certainly big enough to keep this thing cool.

 

 

My Yella Terra Light weight flywheel and tilton clutch mind you it isn't that light it's around 6.8kg's with the clutch its 9.8kg's.

 

I hope to have the front end bar work finished by the end of april as that's when my Bellhousing is arriving so i can commence dummy fitting the engine and gearbox.

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