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sweepa

Is it time to bring our troops home

  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. is it time to bring our troops home?

    • yes
      28
    • no
      9


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So you've probably seen that general dude on the news talking about the fact that we've really achieved nothing in Afghanistan and that it's time to bring our troops home before anymore get killed.

 

Our politicians seem to disagree, they say there has been change and that we should stay the course.

 

So what do you think, has anything changed? is the world any safer now? Are our politicians a bunch of murderers who put profits ahead of people's lives? and is it time to bring our troops home?

 

Go....

Edited by sweepa

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I can't be bothered getting into arguments and explaining countless concepts so I will be brief.

 

So what do you think, has anything changed?

 

Yes

 

is the world any safer now?

 

Yes

 

Are our politicians a bunch of murderers who put profits ahead of people's lives?

 

No

 

and is it time to bring our troops home?

 

No

Edited by Datsun240z

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Major General John Cantwell... that guy is an absolute hero!!!

 

honestly thought he would give the cliche bullshit of "we should stay" as any other service man would... (Because the are contracted to pretty much do so)

 

told it like it is and pretty much confirmed what is already blaintantly obvious...

 

- So what do you think, has anything changed?

 

No... Afghanistan is still a shithole... no offence to the servicemen/women that have served there but that place is beyond repair...

 

- is the world any safer now?

 

No... killing a few hundred thousand to a million muslims is not going to bring back 3000 individuals that died on one day... as a result you would obviously have many pissed of muslims...

 

- Are our politicians a bunch of murderers who put profits ahead of people's lives?

 

No... they are just the most compassionate individuals that wouldn't do such a thing... seriously they would probably sell their 8 year old daughters to the sex slavery industry to satisfy their own interests...

 

- and is it time to bring our troops home?

 

Yes its not our f**king war... never was in the first place... sick and tired of this country being the US lapdog...

Edited by level_100%_warned

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Yes its not our f**king war... never was in the first place... sick and tired of this country being the US lapdog...

 

We will need the USA one day when China gets sick of paying us so much for our resources they decide to overrun us with sheer numbers.

 

I don't think it's time to bring the troops home. I have a massive respect for anyone who joins the army and I think it's horrible when someone dies for our country, but that risk comes with joining the forces. I also don't believe it's as much to do with "killing a few million muslims" as it is about showing the world that Australia gives a shit and is willing to put itself on the line to try and help those countries in need, regardless if America has a different agenda.....IMHO

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Pretty sure these soldiers are not being forced to go, chances are if you are in Afghanistan right now you either signed up after the war started or you chose to go back for additional tours.

Afghanistan has served as a reliable source of real combat experience for soldiers who would have otherwise been wasting away on a base at home.

The down side of combat experience is people shoot back and sometimes they hit their target.

The up side is our troops get valuable experience.

I did not vote because i am indifferent on the matter. On one side we have a bunch of savages who dont know when to admit defeat and on the other we have people who chose to sign up and are doing what they were trained to do.

 

A friend of mine's father was in the army through the 70's (After vietnam) 80's and 90's and his biggest gripe was that he never got to kill anybody.

Edited by Chappy

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Lol u guys still think September 11 was a terrorist attack? Really?

Osama is dead? Really and they threw the body in the ocean? Really?

The us whent into the middle east to make the world safer and not for the gas? Really?

 

Troops are still there to control the land and therefore money! If they die its not to make the world a better place but to increase the profits of our governments.

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Lol u guys still think September 11 was a terrorist attack? Really?

Osama is dead? Really and they threw the body in the ocean? Really?

The us whent into the middle east to make the world safer and not for the gas? Really?

 

Troops are still there to control the land and therefore money! If they die its not to make the world a better place but to increase the profits of our governments.

There are plenty of conspiracy threads on this forum where you can discuss this topic till your keyboard crumbles under your fingers.

If you are too lazy to search for them, start a new one.

 

This thread is not about 911 conspiracies.

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Lol u guys still think September 11 was a terrorist attack? Really?

Osama is dead? Really and they threw the body in the ocean? Really?

The us whent into the middle east to make the world safer and not for the gas? Really?

 

Troops are still there to control the land and therefore money! If they die its not to make the world a better place but to increase the profits of our governments.

There are plenty of conspiracy threads on this forum where you can discuss this topic till your keyboard crumbles under your fingers.

If you are too lazy to search for them, start a new one.

 

This thread is not about 911 conspiracies.

 

no but what is the reason they are there in the first place.

anyway back on topic.

 

yes we want them back home... but the questing is what will they do when they get back?

do they enter the work force or continue training?

i don't think there will be enough jobs considering how many non Australians in the industry.

Edited by george.k

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no but what is the reason they are there in the first place.

 

The thread title is not "why are the troops in Afghanistan?" it is "should we bring our troops home"

 

i don't think there will be enough jobs considering how many non Australians in the industry.

Dude that is blatantly ignorant and racist, do you even have any statistics to back up the belief that 'immigrants is took arr jaawwwwb!' or are you just assuming?

 

Latest figures indicate the opposite, too many of them are coming here and NOT working.....

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That's not what Im trying to say at all. Im in the construction industry. And from what i can see on a day to day basis is that employers chose to use Irish, Chinese, Korean etc workers. i don't have an issue with this. but i would like to think that if the troops do come back that they will be favoured over the non Australians and be able to get jobs at a decent wages. wouldn't u want the same.

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I ask the question again. yes i want our Australian home. but what will they do when they get back? Train? Work? Sit at home?

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I ask the question again. yes i want our Australian home. but what will they do when they get back? Train? Work? Sit at home?

 

not die?

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That's not what Im trying to say at all. Im in the construction industry. And from what i can see on a day to day basis is that employers chose to use Irish, Chinese, Korean etc workers. i don't have an issue with this. but i would like to think that if the troops do come back that they will be favoured over the non Australians and be able to get jobs at a decent wages. wouldn't u want the same.

Most employers I have spoken to about this would rather hire an overseas worker because they come to work, do what is expected and go home. Plus are generally happy to have the job in the first place. You can draw your own conclusions to what that says about Australian workers.

 

I don't know if that's standard across all industries though.

 

If I was hiring for a position I would want to employ the best person for the job, regardless of where they're from¿

 

Anyway that's not the point of this thread!

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I ask the question again. yes i want our Australian home. but what will they do when they get back? Train? Work? Sit at home?

They don't have to quit the army as a condition for coming home.

Those who choose to quit can apply their skills to the private sector. Not everything in the army is about shooting guns, there are lots of trades to learn.

 

And if shooting and killing is all they can do, there is a metric f.uckload of money to be made as a hired mercenary.

Edited by Chappy

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Fair enough... y doesn't the government want to extract the troops exactly?

 

Can they leave if they wish, guessing the troops would be on some sort of yearly contract or something. how does it work?

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Fair enough... y doesn't the government want to extract the troops exactly?

 

Can they leave if they wish, guessing the troops would be on some sort of yearly contract or something. how does it work?

 

When you sign up you are locked into the army for 4 years, and when you are posted overseas you have to complete a full rotation of a set period (6 to 9 months) before you can go home. Only under special circumstances will they cancel a tour early.

 

The government does not want to up and leave because the Afghan Security Forces have repeatedly demonstrated that they are incapable of keeping the Taliban in check on their own. If all allied forces were to leave, the country would quickly fall back under the control of the Taliban, erasing 10 years of work.

They are essentially trying to avoid a repeat of what happened in Vietnam.

Edited by Chappy

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I can't be bothered getting into arguments and explaining countless concepts so I will be brief. So what do you think, has anything changed? Yes is the world any safer now? Yes Are our politicians a bunch of murderers who put profits ahead of people's lives? No and is it time to bring our troops home? No

 

How exactly is the world safer?

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At the first sign of trouble from China, bring them home.

 

I reckon China wants this place badly, and I bet they'd stop at nothing to get it.

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China is already "getting" this place. They don't need to attack us, they can just keep migrating and populating and buying property.

 

I genuinely can't remember the reasons for the war, probably because I didn't believe them, because I know they were excuses for something else. I don't have a tv anymore, I don't read the news either, to me it's mostly shit.

 

I just wonder how they convinced the troops they were fighting for something worthwhile and if maybe they felt a little bit bad that good people were dying on both sides for (what?). They must have really worked on them... reminds me of the police culture actually.

Edited by Spazo

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Let me elaborate slightly,

 

So what do you think, has anything changed?

 

Yes, Most of these terrorist organizations were comfortable and had a solid base from which they could train as they please without scrutiny. Now that they are having to use all or most of their resources fighting guerrilla campaigns against actual soldiers rather than being free to do as they please and target civilians.

 

is the world any safer now?

 

Yes, a large portion of the leadership of these organizations have been killed or captured and their financial capabilities have also been severely crippled. Obviously there are still people ready to replace them but without this they would be able to grow and prosper rather than being constantly exhausted and crippled.

 

Are our politicians a bunch of murderers who put profits ahead of people's lives?

 

No, while oil is now being exported from countries like Iraq it is a small portion compared with global supply and we still have to pay for it and we(Australia) do not profit from this. Afghanistan on the other hands only up side is reducing the ability of terrorist organizations to maintain their major base of operations and the heroin exports they use to fund their enterprise. To think their is some magical billions of dollars of profit to be made by any of this is absurd and the reality is that it is actually really costly to do.

 

and is it time to bring our troops home?

 

No, we have a exit strategy and if anything it could ideally be stretched slightly rather than reduced to ensure most of the good that has been done will not collapse after we leave. The troops we have deployed are not conscripts, they are professional soldiers who chose this as a career and take pride in what they do. If you look at the figures we have only had about 40 deaths in the last decade but what they do is dangerous and they are paid danger money accordingly. Compare this to any other industry and/or even the road toll we have here which is considered low and you'll find it is an extraordinary small percentage of injuries and fatalities.

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China is already "getting" this place. They don't need to attack us, they can just keep migrating and populating and buying property.

 

I genuinely can't remember the reasons for the war, probably because I didn't believe them, because I know they were excuses for something else. I don't have a tv anymore, I don't read the news either, to me it's mostly shit.

 

I just wonder how they convinced the troops they were fighting for something worthwhile and if maybe they felt a little bit bad that good people were dying on both sides for (what?). They must have really worked on them... reminds me of the police culture actually.

 

While I don't disagree with what you're saying, I do believe somewhere on China's horizon is a complete takeover of Australia, or as much of it as they can get, and I'm not talking about buying up the place either.

 

As for your last paragraph, the whole thing is built on the pride and passion of the nation.

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Datsun240z, Bloke and Chappy have already raised some of the points I was going to mention, so I won't rehash.

 

Personally, I think a lot of people who weigh into this topic (in general, not specifically NS) need to listen to the media and hippies less, and study history more.

History has proven time and time again that weath, land and resources will not prevent nations from being conquered. You need a large army, or stong allies.

Our army is tiny. We need America's support, and that's why we're in Iraq and Afghanistan. Britain won't come to the rescue, nor will the rest of Europe care to get involved should we ever have problems.

 

Not to mention, if the West pulls out now, both Iraq and Afghanistan will go sh*t and revert to their previous state, if not worse.

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Will we have support of America against a country like China? A good reason not to supports Australia would be oh sorry most of our resources are in the middle east.Hope the alliance with the us is strong enough.

 

Funny i had a dream about a month ago that China was invading lol

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Datsun240z, Bloke and Chappy have already raised some of the points I was going to mention, so I won't rehash.

 

Personally, I think a lot of people who weigh into this topic (in general, not specifically NS) need to listen to the media and hippies less, and study history more.

History has proven time and time again that weath, land and resources will not prevent nations from being conquered. You need a large army, or stong allies.

Our army is tiny. We need America's support, and that's why we're in Iraq and Afghanistan. Britain won't come to the rescue, nor will the rest of Europe care to get involved should we ever have problems.

 

Not to mention, if the West pulls out now, both Iraq and Afghanistan will go sh*t and revert to their previous state, if not worse.

 

but yes this is he reason troops are still over there. i wouldn't disagree because we do/will need an alliance one day.

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I for one am ready to roll over and accept our new Chinese overlords.

 

But in all seriousness, Do i think we should be there? No, i believe it has nothing to do with us. We only tarnish ourselves as a country for being associated with the US and being their lap dog.

 

Do we have a choice? No, unfortunately our closest allies, the penguins in Antarctica, wont come to our defense should we be invaded. New Zealand? LOLZ.....

 

However, as much as i don't want to agree with George.k, i too have a bad feeling that should shit ever go down, America wont come to our aid due to being preoccupied with their steal the middle east oil campaign. But then again, they probably wont want China to gain all our resources either.

 

I just wonder how they convinced the troops they were fighting for something worthwhile and if maybe they felt a little bit bad that good people were dying on both sides for (what?). They must have really worked on them... reminds me of the police culture actually.

 

I have a new workmate who has migrated from England, he was a soldier and did tours in Kosovo and the Gulf the first time round, and he told me of story's of his mates getting killed, how he has lost half a dozen in war.

 

I asked him didn't he see the loss of his mates as a complete waste of life due to them being somewhere they ideally didn't belong.

 

I also asked him if he though it would be throwing his life away should he ever get killed over something that had nothing to do with him.

 

His response was that he would still go, not for "the king and country" not for "the queen" but for his fellow soldiers, It would eat him up staying at home and watching his friends die, thinking "if i were there, perhaps i could have saved them" maybe he could have made that difference that would keep his friends alive, to him, it had nothing to do with the politics, he didn't care where he went, he only went to protect his fellow squad mate, i told him that it seemed they brainwashed him pretty good, and he didn't disagree with me. When i told him that perhaps if all your mates refused to get involved in something that was none of their business in the first place, they would still be alive regardless, and all he did was give me a nervous laugh.

 

IN MY EXPERIENCE, everyone i know who has joined the armed forces have done so not to defend their country or "do their duty" but it being they have all been dead beats or no hopers, who struggled with work and school etc etc. The army offered them ALOT of money, heck, alot more than what im on, and required no experience or skills, they would be trained and paid and built up to do their bidding. Also in my experience, these people arn't ones to question politics or have their own views on "why are we here"

 

many might disagree with me here, like i said, i have known about 8 people to all join the army, and it was because they couldn't find or hold down any other job, a workmate who is in the navy after he got fired when he was still an apprentice at my work, he confirms my theory, telling me 90% of his fellow enlistee's for that year were "100x worse than me" out of control drunk wild no hopers.

 

A friend of mine's father was in the army through the 70's (After vietnam) 80's and 90's and his biggest gripe was that he never got to kill anybody.

 

Chappy, i like you, i really do, we have the same ideas on citadell failcast, so please dont take this as a attack on you personally, its not what im doing.

 

But your mates father is a dead set f**kwit redneck with no brains typical thug who go to war to kill nips or ragheads, yeah no thanks..... i just can't fathom how someone can have a viewpoint like that.

 

And ps... im no bleeding heart, when china or Indonesia finally attack us, ill fight and die to defend my country, but i wont do it half way across the world for something that has nothing to do with me.

 

Rudolf.

Edited by CroS13

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A friend of mine's father was in the army through the 70's (After vietnam) 80's and 90's and his biggest gripe was that he never got to kill anybody.

 

Chappy, i like you, i really do, we have the same ideas on citadell failcast, so please dont take this as a attack on you personally, its not what im doing.

 

But your mates father is a dead set f**kwit redneck with no brains typical thug who go to war to kill nips or ragheads, yeah no thanks..... i just can't fathom how someone can have a viewpoint like that.

 

Hey i dont disagree with you, the man was an arrogant c*nt. I was just providing an example of how a soldier may feel if we 'brought him home'.

My point was that these people train to fight so we should not feel sorry for them when they are given the chance to do just that.

 

If you want the soldiers to come home just make sure it is for the right reasons. Sympathy for the soldiers IMO is not one.

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Troops are still there to control the land and therefore money! If they die its not to make the world a better place but to increase the profits of our governments.

 

It's not so much the governments that profits but rather weapons manufacturers, defense contractors, construction companies that get paid to go in a rebuild what the US blows up and large companies like Halliburton that really rake in the profits, which is why they secretly lobby governments to prolong wars. Who do you think gets the trillions of dollars the US government spends on the wars each year?

 

For those that say we should stay, what do you think could be accomplished by staying at this point? The original reason for going in there has been accomplished (apparently), Osama, is dead (supposedly) and Al Qaeda defeated (in Afghanistan anyways). What possible reason do we have for staying? Do you really think we are going to institute democracy or some bullshit in Afghanistan? Do you really think anyone really cares if we do? Or is it maybe a little bit more likely that the above mentioned corporations are lobbying to prolong it just that little bit more so they can make just a little bit more money?

Edited by sweepa

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The Taliban still hold a fair chunk of the Afghan hills. They are waiting for the allied forces to leave before they come out of hiding to pwn the Afghan military.

I question if they could ever be completely ratted out of the mountains.

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