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sweepa

Muslim Riots and calls for Deportation!

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Now before you call me camel rider, do note camels live in australia, and that I am atheist though tolerant and accepting of any faith in its purest form,but all faith is corrupted these days.

 

I disagree with the notion of "all faith is corrupted these days".

If you look back on what history there is on the actions of various faiths you will see that they have always been corrupted, it is just these days we have the internet to keep a record of it.

 

Here is said post

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sponegboy, read as much as this as you can tolerate.

 

http://www.sacred-te...g/motd/motd.htm

 

 

THERE is no study so saddening, and none so sublime as that of the early religions of mankind. To trace back the worship of God to its simple origin, and to mark the gradual process of those degrading superstitions, and unhallowed rites which darkened, and finally extinguished His presence in the ancient world.

 

...

 

But they were not long content with this simple service. Prayer which had first been an inspiration fell into a system, and men already grown wicked prayed the Deity to give them abundance of wild beast's skins, and to destroy their enemies.

They ascended eminences, as if hoping that thus being nearer God, He would prefer their prayers to those of their rivals. Such is the origin of that superstitious reverence for high places which was universal throughout the whole of the heathen world.

 

...

 

There were men who had watched Orpheus, and who had seen and envied his power over the herd who surrounded him. They resolved to imitate him, and having studied these barbarians, they banded together, and called themselves their priests. Religion -is divine, but its ministers are men. And alas! sometimes they are demons with the faces and wings of angels.

The simplicity of men, and the cunning of their priests has destroyed or corrupted all the religions of the world.

These priests taught the people to sacrifice the choicest herbs and flowers. They taught them formulas of prayer, and bade them make so many obeisances to the sun, and to worship those flowers which opened their leaves when he rose, and which closed them as he set.

 

 

What do you think?

 

I think this text which is nearly 150 years old is still very relevant today.

Edited by TheApothecary

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In the dark ages the second richest people (after royalty) were priests and most of the biggest most spectacular buildings in existence were churches.

Corruption has existed in religion for as long as religion has included human beings.

Human beings will always find a way to gain an unfair advantage.

Incorrect

 

Christianity didn't originate in the dark ages, and said giant extravagant churches didn't exist until the latter stages of the dark ages. The catholic church held a lot of sway though. Christians were still discriminated until hadrian and Constantine came along..

Please direct me to where i stated that Christianity originated in the dark ages?

And just because giant extravagant churches didn't exist till the latter part of the dark ages does not mean there was not corruption. Enormous churches are simply a strong example of such corruption.

 

You stated a few posts earlier that corruption exist within a faith from inception, which is incorrect, faith in its most basic form is a collections of ideals. The corruption occurs during the practice of said faith.

I still fail to see where i said Christianity started in the dark ages.

And just because your understanding of the beginnings of a faith does not coincide with the idea of there being corruption, does not mean there was not.

There is no definitive proof to support either way, although the idea of a virgin birth and a man who can work miracles becomes a lot more believable when you read it as cheating wife gives birth to the biggest conman the world has ever seen.

The opposing explanations hint at either divine purity or a religion that was started on corruption and lies.

 

:edit:

Furthermore, my comment was referring to the fact that corruption is ingrained in every human being, so a faith practiced by humans is corrupt.

Edited by Chappy

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Now before you call me camel rider, do note camels live in australia, and that I am atheist though tolerant and accepting of any faith in its purest form,but all faith is corrupted these days.

 

I disagree with the notion of "all faith is corrupted these days".

If you look back on what history there is on the actions of various faiths you will see that they have always been corrupted, it is just these days we have the internet to keep a record of it.

 

Here is said post

 

Here is said post about faiths being corrupted from inception, and apothecary that post is very relevant today, but it's still very recent on the grander scheme of things..

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In the dark ages the second richest people (after royalty) were priests and most of the biggest most spectacular buildings in existence were churches.

Corruption has existed in religion for as long as religion has included human beings.

Human beings will always find a way to gain an unfair advantage.

Incorrect

 

Christianity didn't originate in the dark ages, and said giant extravagant churches didn't exist until the latter stages of the dark ages. The catholic church held a lot of sway though. Christians were still discriminated until hadrian and Constantine came along..

Please direct me to where i stated that Christianity originated in the dark ages?

And just because giant extravagant churches didn't exist till the latter part of the dark ages does not mean there was not corruption. Enormous churches are simply a strong example of such corruption.

 

You stated a few posts earlier that corruption exist within a faith from inception, which is incorrect, faith in its most basic form is a collections of ideals. The corruption occurs during the practice of said faith.

I still fail to see where i said Christianity started in the dark ages.

And just because your understanding of the beginnings of a faith does not coincide with the idea of there being corruption, does not mean there was not.

There is no definitive proof to support either way, although the idea of a virgin birth and a man who can work miracles becomes a lot more believable when you read it as cheating wife gives birth to the biggest conman the world has ever seen.

The opposing explanations hint at either divine purity or a religion that was started on corruption and lies.

 

:edit:

Furthermore, my comment was referring to the fact that corruption is ingrained in every human being, so a faith practiced by humans is corrupt.

In order for something to be corrupt, it has to have been corrupted at some point, hence why faiths cannot be corrupt from the get go.

 

I also don't believe corruption is ingrained in all, you would har to have some form of intelligence in order to exploit others....

Edited by spongeboy

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Chappy,

The best 'evidence' either of us can offer is speculation, I respect your argument and agree with most of it, I guess we just differ on other points..

 

I fvcking rate how these discussion just was on a epic tangent every time haha

Edited by spongeboy

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You can believe all you want :)

 

There is no historical record of the day to day actions of each religion from inception, so to say they were not corrupt on the basis that the values a religion claims to follow today are good at their core is quite assumptive.

 

I am simply stating that any system where humans are involved will be corrupt in some form. Unlike your statement i do not need proof on the main focus of the topic (religion) but instead can rely on the history of human beings cheating to benefit themselves (which there is ample evidence dating back hundreds of years before Christianity).

Edited by Chappy

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it is just as asdumptive to say that they were corrupt from thr beginning......

 

most things start out innocently and are corrupted over time as power grows. take a look at monsanto, once they were a humble chemical company. they sre now one of the biggest most evil companies in the ag biotech sector (i know its not religion, but still the same point). i think its safe to assume religion staeted out like this.

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I am atheist though tolerant and accepting of any faith in its purest form,but all faith is corrupted these days.

 

Why are you tolerant today? The three abrahamic religions (christianity, islam, and judaism) in their original, "purest form" should never and would never, ever be tolerated by anyone living today. They are disgusting relics of the bronze age. Faiths may be corrupted from their original form, but their original form was f**king terrible. Just read the bible, that shits insane, so is the quran, and so is the old testament.

 

The only thing that saves religion in this day and age is that it has slowly become more moderate (holding back the rest of society with it's slow progress). This by some peoples definition has "corrupted" it, but this is what stops people (and the religious leaders) endorsing the stoning of adulterers, as all three of those religions preached. Islam is one of the worst religions, as it's refusal to modernize is held up like a badge of honor, which is why you still see barbaric practices abandoned hundreds of years ago by the west, continuing on in the middle east.

 

Faith in the sense we are talking about and religion in general is not and never has been pure, nor good, and should not be accepted or tolerated, it should be denounced for the evil that it is, and that it causes.

 

 

 

 

.

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Back to the original topic, it's a complicated situation.

 

Religion is sh*t. People are sh*t. War is sh*t. Government is sh*t. Islam is thoroughly sh*t, but in the past, Catholicism and Christianity were just as sh*t.

Society is floating in a primordial soup being stirred by randy caveman thumping their chests and shouting warcries from the Bible or Quran. The non-extremists do nothing beyond simply 'denouncing' the bad guys, which is great, but also happens to be completely f**king useless. Unless the goal is to let the crazies continue to spread hate, in which case, job well done.

 

Given the amount of energy religious apologists put into telling everyone else how evil and wrong they are, you would think they could at least spare some time for a little lynching in their ranks.

Edited by pmod

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it is just as asdumptive to say that they were corrupt from thr beginning......

 

most things start out innocently and are corrupted over time as power grows. take a look at monsanto, once they were a humble chemical company. they sre now one of the biggest most evil companies in the ag biotech sector (i know its not religion, but still the same point). i think its safe to assume religion staeted out like this.

Both islam and christianity have their beginnings with one worshipped individual (Jesus on one end and Mohammed on the other). If you believe this person to be just a human and not the divine being they claim to be then the religion was corrupted from the start.

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Obama Obama we love Osama?? Seriously if your'e gonna yell that down the street GTFO!!

 

Well Osama is dead and Obama isn't.

So, 1 to us, none to you.

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A few questions.....

 

1st off

 

It's funny you mention the 'fact' that Islam is a hateful and violent religion, having witnessed both Christianity and Islam second hand through family, Islam is by far the more moderate, it preaches equality(between sex and race) and peace throughout the Quran, whereas the bible is riddled with stories of conquests (story of David). Islam also accepts Jesus as a prophet whereas Christianity only accepts the word of Jesus...

 

 

 

WTF?????? are you serious????

 

Ok now that that is out of the way some questions for the Muslims on the forum

1. How can we trust you? For most westerners I think it's fair to say that we don't know a lot about Islam, and most of what we do know comes from mainstream media or things like the video below, so maybe we're just ignorant.

http://youtu.be/Ib9rofXQl6w

but how do we know? If what the video says is true about things like Taqiyya, how do we know that you really are a peaceful moderate Muslim and not just deceiving us. This is a legitimate concern for westerners.

 

2. As an Atheist, I'm also interested to know (and this goes for all religious people not just Muslims), why do you believe in your particular religion? Is it just because that's the way you were raised and you've never thought to question it or were just to afraid to, or is there really some tangible reason that makes you think your religion is the truth?

 

This is something that I really struggle to understand, how seemingly intelligent people capable of critical thought can throw reason to the wind and can put there faith in something despite not only a complete lack of any sort of credible evidence FOR your beliefs, but mountains of evidence to the contrary.

 

 

For the people defending the bible and Christianity as though it is some how more sane.

 

Deut. 22:13-21

"If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, 14 and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, ‘I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,’ 15 then the girl’s father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. 16 "And the girl’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; 17 and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, "I did not find your daughter a virgin." But this is the evidence of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. 18 "So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, 19 and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl’s father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. 20 "But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, 21 then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel, by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you," (
Deut. 22:13-21
).

The Bible

 

Maybe whats needed is for Atheists to get organised and start recruiting the way the major religions do. The world will be better for it.

Edited by sweepa

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it is just as asdumptive to say that they were corrupt from thr beginning......

 

most things start out innocently and are corrupted over time as power grows. take a look at monsanto, once they were a humble chemical company. they sre now one of the biggest most evil companies in the ag biotech sector (i know its not religion, but still the same point). i think its safe to assume religion staeted out like this.

Both islam and christianity have their beginnings with one worshipped individual (Jesus on one end and Mohammed on the other). If you believe this person to be just a human and not the divine being they claim to be then the religion was corrupted from the start.

 

You're wrong there too, in islam, Mohammed is recognized as the last prophet, Muslims worship Allah..islam also recognizes Jesus as a prophet, however they do not believe he is the son of god.

 

As dr. Cranium said, in order for something to be corrupted it must deviate from its root, in a religions case its initial ideal. Again this is on a ridiculous tangent so getting back on topic, this riot was just a bunch of redneck Muslims carrying on like porkchops..

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edit - response to sweepa

 

No it wouldnt.. Atheists are the modern day religious nut jobs.. no religion ever gets jammed down my throat anymore, but everywhere i turn, is atheists challenging religious people as to why they believe, and why they believe it is stupid that they do so..

 

Seriously, I would have no problem with Atheists if you guys just shut the f*ck up about it.. That's fantatsic that you don't believe in a higher power, and that you believe that the universe and everything around you just appeared out of nothing, but seriously, just shut up about it..

Edited by harris.

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edit - response to sweepa

 

No it wouldnt.. Atheists are the modern day religious nut jobs.. no religion ever gets jammed down my throat anymore, but everywhere i turn, is atheists challenging religious people as to why they believe, and why they believe it is stupid that they do so..

 

Seriously, I would have no problem with Atheists if you guys just shut the f*ck up about it.. That's fantatsic that you don't believe in a higher power, and that you believe that the universe and everything around you just appeared out of nothing, but seriously, just shut up about it..

 

How the hell are we religious nut jobs when Atheism isn't a religion. How is NOT believing in something a religion?

 

The world needs more Atheists.

 

Penn Jillette

 

Damn straight!!!!!

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Sweepsta, to answer your question,

 

I enjoy bacon, pork crackling and the odd ham sandwich, my mum is Turkish so some of my cousins are Quran bumpers, my dad is African so I also have bible bashers as rellies, I was born a Muslim but that is a formality for most born in turkey.

 

I am an atheist because I believe in the concept of evolution and I generalise modern religion as a whole to be a commercialized joke, I do, however respect those who do right by others regardless of their faith.

 

Religion is lifestyle choice, you can choose to believe In Jesus, Jehovah, Allah or a frickin spaghetti monster lol. At the end of the you can only judge someone on their actions, not their ideals or beliefs.

 

Also lets use turkey as an example, rednecks are

Minimal, and 98.9% of Turks are westernized to a degree. Turkey is a secular nation however the vast majority of citizens are Muslim.

Edited by spongeboy

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I think people believe there is a god or something greater based on the fact that the bible/quran are to advanced to be made up by some random. there is no way some guy made up the bible,

And on the other side of the world another guy made up the quran

 

My dad beleives something did happen and religion was each races way of describing it.

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I think people believe there is a god or something greater based on the fact that the bible/quran are to advanced to be made up by some random. there is no way some guy made up the bible,

And on the other side of the world another guy made up the quran

 

My dad beleives something did happen and religion was each races way of describing it.

 

i believe that humans made up "god" or what ever because we realized how small we are compared to the Universe so we made up some bullshit story about "god" to make us feel safer that some one was looking over us

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edit - response to sweepa

 

No it wouldnt.. Atheists are the modern day religious nut jobs.. no religion ever gets jammed down my throat anymore, but everywhere i turn, is atheists challenging religious people as to why they believe, and why they believe it is stupid that they do so..

 

Seriously, I would have no problem with Atheists if you guys just shut the f*ck up about it.. That's fantatsic that you don't believe in a higher power, and that you believe that the universe and everything around you just appeared out of nothing, but seriously, just shut up about it..

 

GET f**kED.

 

Atheists stand up for FREEDOM. Unlike the vast maority of the religious which will with every turn attempt to restrict my freedom. Be that christians, jews or muslims.

 

Anti-science with anti-evolotion bullshit trying to get forced into schools.

State fund religious education within state schools.

Anti free speech attacks. Claiming "offense" and "respect" towards their religion.

Anti abortion attacks.

Attempting to law Sharia courts within Australia.

Attacks on gay rights.

Gambling

Alcohol

Strippers.

 

Religion is about control and forcible control of others. It has little care of freedom.

I wont be quite till the day a religious person has NO SAY over the choices within my life. Till that day comes, expect atheists to be defending their rights loudly.

If you want to live within your own little religious shell, be my guest but don't attempt to use the law to restrict my life.

Edited by Peter89

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Obama Obama we love Osama?? Seriously if your'e gonna yell that down the street GTFO!!

 

Well Osama is dead and Obama isn't.

So, 1 to us, none to you.

 

I think you need to re- read what i wrote ;)

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Obama Obama we love Osama?? Seriously if your'e gonna yell that down the street GTFO!!

 

Well Osama is dead and Obama isn't.

So, 1 to us, none to you.

 

I think you need to re- read what i wrote wink.png

bahahahhahahaha FAIL

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yup, read it again, makes sense to me ;)

 

By 'you' i am referring to the protesters obviously

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All religions are retarded. (video related)

 

At least Islam didn't stop the world from developing for 500 years and they gave us kebabs.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7QXhGLZW00

 

p.s. you rage, you lose.

 

As for everything else >>> http://bible.cc/jeremiah/8-8.htm I wonder how many people miss this part. Also if they (the religion of Islam and the subscriber Muslims) accept Jesus as a prophet do they read the new testament?

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All religions are retarded. (video related)

 

At least Islam didn't stop the world from developing for 500 years and they gave us kebabs.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7QXhGLZW00

 

p.s. you rage, you lose.

 

As for everything else >>> http://bible.cc/jeremiah/8-8.htm I wonder how many people miss this part. Also if they (the religion of Islam and the subscriber Muslims) accept Jesus as a prophet do they read the new testament?

 

Nah the new testament identifies Jesus as the son of god and part of the holy trinity, Muslims just think he's a prophet, however i think he was the badass *milkshake* who wore stilts in a river and fooled fooled everyone into thinking he walks on water..

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sweepa -

 

I was using religious nutjobs as an analogy.. as i said in the quote there, atheists are the ones jamming it down peoples throats these days.. you know how often i get approached and berated by christians these days?? Never.. do you know how often atheists find out that i am not one of them and i get crucified (pun intended) for it?? all the f*cken time.. again, as i said, if you want to believe that everything in the universe just appeared from nothing, thats awesome and i commend you for it.. but if i say i believe something different, don't berate me with questions and insult that i am less educated than you because of it..

 

Atheists have a superiority complex, and that's what pisses me off.. you're not smarter than me just because you googled a few things and chose to believe something other than what i believe..

 

edit - response to sweepa

 

No it wouldnt.. Atheists are the modern day religious nut jobs.. no religion ever gets jammed down my throat anymore, but everywhere i turn, is atheists challenging religious people as to why they believe, and why they believe it is stupid that they do so..

 

Seriously, I would have no problem with Atheists if you guys just shut the f*ck up about it.. That's fantatsic that you don't believe in a higher power, and that you believe that the universe and everything around you just appeared out of nothing, but seriously, just shut up about it..

 

GET f**kED.

 

Atheists stand up for FREEDOM. Unlike the vast maority of the religious which will with every turn attempt to restrict my freedom. Be that christians, jews or muslims.

 

Anti-science with anti-evolotion bullshit trying to get forced into schools.

State fund religious education within state schools.

Anti free speech attacks. Claiming "offense" and "respect" towards their religion.

Anti abortion attacks.

Attempting to law Sharia courts within Australia.

Attacks on gay rights.

Gambling

Alcohol

Strippers.

 

Religion is about control and forcible control of others. It has little care of freedom.

I wont be quite till the day a religious person has NO SAY over the choices within my life. Till that day comes, expect atheists to be defending their rights loudly.

If you want to live within your own little religious shell, be my guest but don't attempt to use the law to restrict my life.

 

that has nothing to do with the average religious person though.. EVEN if i believe that gays shouldnt get married (i dont actually give a shit who marries who, but im using it as my point) what do my beliefs have to do with you? i think you will find the average person doesnt really give two shits about that list you created there, and the only ones that do are the same bible bashing morons that i share your distaste for..

 

The fact of the matter is, just like muslim riots, it seems alot of you have no problem letting the minority influence your opinion of the majority..

 

Most of the replies in here have been 'F*ck the muslims, they want to riot they can gert out', but really the rally was like 100 people.. if 3.6% of the population are muslims, and there are 22 and a half million australians, it means that there aer approximately 700,000 muslims in australia.. so 1 one out of every 1000 australian muslims were out being dicks, and you guys paint the entire muslim population as rioting dickheads that dont have anything better to do with their time..

 

If you actually did a little research instead of jumping on the bandwagon, you would find (just like the two muslims that have participated in this thread so far) that most of the Australian muslim population have condemned the action of the rioting group, and find the attitude disgusting..

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^^^

Exactly right u morons hear one thing read one thing either about Christians, Muslims or who ever and run with it. U are controlled by the media yet u think ur free

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