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Boat people dont want help from Indonesians

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Bingo, sheltered cultures that stick to themselves don't promote progress as they don't share ideas between each other. so...

 

If white Australia wasn't formed, the indigineous Australians would still be chasing food barefoot with a spear, poor example I know... But the countries your referring to would be doing what they were before any western nations presence.
Is completely correct.

 

More so we've gone through a lot in the 300 year development of our country most noticeably our "tradition" (therefore culture) of the Anzac spirit which was achieved through sacrifice and suffering. People who haven't been brought up to understand this concept (along with others that we Australians enjoy) don't understand it and as such assimilation is near impossible as they don't (perhaps can't) respect things/society/community the way we do because of our history. Stewy implied this with all they have is crime and that's all they can offer.

 

And if indigenous Australians chose to still be chasing barefoot with a spear, why would that be a bad thing? This country isn't simply about the 'ANZAC' spirit. Immigrants have played a major role in turning this country into what it is today, like it or not.

 

Just because people don't live according to the values you have does not mean they are living incorrectly.

 

There is a difference between immigrants that come through the proper channels and illegal asylum seekers. To get a visa to live here via the the legal channels you need to have skills and/or be a student. THESE people are the ones who actually contribute to our country, not the ones who come here and refuse to assimilate, and live off government welfare, which is the MAJORITY of them. Statistics do not lie.

 

I wasn't talking about asylum seekers per se but rather attempting to point out that non Anglo-Australian culture has played a pivotal role in the development of this country.

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Charity STARTS AT HOME. FIX OUR ISSUES UP BEFORE TRYING TO FIX EVERYONE ELSES!!!

 

As the stats in the document in someones sig, 80%+ of these immigrants NEVER contribute back and only take handouts for the rest of their lives, not to mention receive MORE from the government than those who worked for 50+ years.

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Charity STARTS AT HOME. FIX OUR ISSUES UP BEFORE TRYING TO FIX EVERYONE ELSES!!!

 

Someone who isn't retarded.

 

Praise the lord.

 

And if indigenous Australians chose to still be chasing barefoot with a spear, why would that be a bad thing? This country isn't simply about the 'ANZAC' spirit. Immigrants have played a major role in turning this country into what it is today, like it or not.

 

Just because people don't live according to the values you have does not mean they are living incorrectly.

 

Well. Let's see. It wouldn't be a bad thing, there still are a handful of "native" Aboriginals (does that offend you? ABORIGINALS) walking around with their spear eating witchity grubs and that's cool. We are immigrants just like the "indigenous" people which is interesting because my family were on the second boat to Adelaide in the early 1800s, so yeah they sure did have a major role in turning this country into what it is today, like it or not.

 

As for values... Well, that family from 1800 would have figured out how to get along and communicate with others for trade/friendship and therefore a happy survival, they would've passed this information down the line until I know what they know and more. It doesn't mean they're living incorrectly sure but I've got a fair good idea on what is "living correctly" through what's been passed down and it only makes me respect and empathise more with how this country came to be what it is today.

 

To not understand this is a great detriment and perhaps even more so, decadency to "values" that are relevant to Australia today. This isn't an attack on immigrants, it's an attack on white trash, niggers, abos, jews, chinks, wogs, lebs, bikies, etc. I guess you could put it to a global forming of anti-intellectualism (ignorance maybe?) AND that's rather offensive - values or not.

 

That concludes my class for today.

Edited by TheApothecary

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here's the problem, yes it's a hard stance, but it's a necessary stance. it sucks that there are people living in those situations, yes it does, if we could viably destroy poverty and dangerous living situations would we? yes obviously. the problem is, we can't take them all, so we have to be very picky who we take in, which is why we have official avenues for this stuff.

 

As i said before, most of the people that arrive by boat are stateless, or have not been granted refugee status, meaning that they can't follow 'official avenues'. Nonetheless, this does not mean that that they are not under threat. Why is it a necessary stance? We do not have to take all of them, but we shouldn't refuse them entry either. We as a country are more than capable of taking on refugees. Shit, since the 1940 i think we have taken on over 700,000 refugees. So why are you kicking up a stink now?

 

do you honestly believe we have the infrastructure, economy, resources or social strength to deal with that influx?
we are more than capable of handling a few thousand assylum. We aren't talking millions, mate.

 

we would basically adopt all their poverty and social issues, if you say no, then tell me other than to have an official process, how do we regulate how people come into our borders?

 

We wouldn't adopt all their poverty, and or social issues. You are over generalising. While there may be cases, i think the majority of them would have no trouble assimilating into society. If they have a genuine case for asylum, then let them in, within reason of course. This does not mean simply let every single person through

 

is it as simple as, if you have the money to pay a human trafficker to get you across then you should be allowed in our country, ie boat people? that hardly seems a fair, consistent, or safe way about it. so give us your solution.
see above, however, we shouldn't simply 'stop the boats'.

 

If your solution is to simply allow more people in through the official process, well that doesn't stop boat people, while there is anything less than a free ticket to Australia, there will always be people who want to skip the process and will do it at any cost. So i want to know how we are meant to deal with these boat people? do we just accept every person on a boat, and display a message to others that if you want to skip the official process and just come here on a boat,

 

As i said before, if they have a genuine case for assylum, then we should help them. Again, i stress that this does not mean simply letting everyone through.

 

then no worries, we will open you with open arms, please flood our cities with absolutely no restriction, create neighbourhoods that completely segregate themselves from the rest of the country except for the reliance of resources from our government. their integration is already so shit as it is, can you imagine if these people came in even higher numbers with even less incentive to integrate as their secluded communities increase in scale?

 

you seem to think that your opinions are facts.

 

the solution is to do as much for these people as we can, IN THEIR COUNTRY.

 

LOL! yes, lets try and help Afghanis and Iraqis in their war ravaged countries. Nice solution chief.

 

as a country we already do a lot for them, however that seems to go completely unnoticed as soon as we try to stop some line-jumpers from illegally arriving on our shores.

 

yeh, we do a lot for them. Like helping F**k their countries up and then having a whinge when they start coming to your doorstep. Nice mate, real nice.

Yeh WE f**ked up their country, it was paradise before hand... i'm not going to get into the war as it's a completely different topic, however saying the reason that country is a shithole is purely out fault is bullshit.

 

You still haven't come up with a solution, you said: "We do not have to take all of them, but we shouldn't refuse them entry either." so basically we shouldn't let them all in, but we can't turn them away, that definitely is a sticky situation :S

Edited by nisskid

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here's the problem, yes it's a hard stance, but it's a necessary stance. it sucks that there are people living in those situations, yes it does, if we could viably destroy poverty and dangerous living situations would we? yes obviously. the problem is, we can't take them all, so we have to be very picky who we take in, which is why we have official avenues for this stuff.

 

As i said before, most of the people that arrive by boat are stateless, or have not been granted refugee status, meaning that they can't follow 'official avenues'. Nonetheless, this does not mean that that they are not under threat. Why is it a necessary stance? We do not have to take all of them, but we shouldn't refuse them entry either. We as a country are more than capable of taking on refugees. Shit, since the 1940 i think we have taken on over 700,000 refugees. So why are you kicking up a stink now?

 

do you honestly believe we have the infrastructure, economy, resources or social strength to deal with that influx?
we are more than capable of handling a few thousand assylum. We aren't talking millions, mate.

 

we would basically adopt all their poverty and social issues, if you say no, then tell me other than to have an official process, how do we regulate how people come into our borders?

 

We wouldn't adopt all their poverty, and or social issues. You are over generalising. While there may be cases, i think the majority of them would have no trouble assimilating into society. If they have a genuine case for asylum, then let them in, within reason of course. This does not mean simply let every single person through

 

is it as simple as, if you have the money to pay a human trafficker to get you across then you should be allowed in our country, ie boat people? that hardly seems a fair, consistent, or safe way about it. so give us your solution.
see above, however, we shouldn't simply 'stop the boats'.

 

If your solution is to simply allow more people in through the official process, well that doesn't stop boat people, while there is anything less than a free ticket to Australia, there will always be people who want to skip the process and will do it at any cost. So i want to know how we are meant to deal with these boat people? do we just accept every person on a boat, and display a message to others that if you want to skip the official process and just come here on a boat,

 

As i said before, if they have a genuine case for assylum, then we should help them. Again, i stress that this does not mean simply letting everyone through.

 

then no worries, we will open you with open arms, please flood our cities with absolutely no restriction, create neighbourhoods that completely segregate themselves from the rest of the country except for the reliance of resources from our government. their integration is already so shit as it is, can you imagine if these people came in even higher numbers with even less incentive to integrate as their secluded communities increase in scale?

 

you seem to think that your opinions are facts.

 

the solution is to do as much for these people as we can, IN THEIR COUNTRY.

 

LOL! yes, lets try and help Afghanis and Iraqis in their war ravaged countries. Nice solution chief.

 

as a country we already do a lot for them, however that seems to go completely unnoticed as soon as we try to stop some line-jumpers from illegally arriving on our shores.

 

yeh, we do a lot for them. Like helping F**k their countries up and then having a whinge when they start coming to your doorstep. Nice mate, real nice.

Yeh WE f**ked up their country, it was paradise before hand... i'm not going to get into the war as it's a completely different topic, however saying the reason that country is a shithole is purely out fault is bullshit.

 

You still haven't come up with a solution, you said: "We do not have to take all of them, but we shouldn't refuse them entry either." so basically we shouldn't let them all in, but we can't turn them away, that definitely is a sticky situation :S

 

I can bet you it was a bit better before we and the 'world police' decided we'd start telling them what they needed. The topics are connected, and a large part of why some of these people are coming is linked directly or in-directly with Australias participation in the invasion of these countries.

 

I don't know the solution but i know that simply 'stopping the boats' isn't the solution

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Well that last post of yours sums it up, everything's a conspiracy to you isn't it.

 

I can say for sure that if we didn't have to keep people with opinions like you happy we would probably make more progress instead of having to tip toe on egg shells.

 

I'm out, i've said plenty the last couple pages and AP/nisskid/the doc and silo have put some damn good posts up to keep you preaching for months.

Edited by brent47

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Can someone give this guy a refugee so he'll shut up

There's no way he'd be able to support one, eventually sheltering/feeding/ footing the bill for nice things when they get jealous of his car/tv/nice clothes and fancy outings would take its toll when he leaves to go to work everyday and the refugee is curled up on his couch playing his playstation and eating his ice cream while constantly impregnating his wife who has just as many destroyed documents so they can have 5 more kids because they finally made it to Australia and are getting looked after.

 

Would be back on a boat within months.

Edited by brent47

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I don't know the solution but i know that simply 'stopping the boats' isn't the solution

It's easy to oppose something if you have nothing to defend, anyone can show the bad points for any idea, it's how it stacks up to the other options that is relevant. Either of the ideas obviously aren't an ideal solution, if we could take them all in, integrate them successfully and help them then obviously we would, but we can't, so some times you have to pick the lesser of 2 evils, and simply arguing that one is evil doesn't get you anywhere.

Edited by nisskid

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Bingo, sheltered cultures that stick to themselves don't promote progress as they don't share ideas between each other. so...

 

If white Australia wasn't formed, the indigineous Australians would still be chasing food barefoot with a spear, poor example I know... But the countries your referring to would be doing what they were before any western nations presence.
Is completely correct.

 

More so we've gone through a lot in the 300 year development of our country most noticeably our "tradition" (therefore culture) of the Anzac spirit which was achieved through sacrifice and suffering. People who haven't been brought up to understand this concept (along with others that we Australians enjoy) don't understand it and as such assimilation is near impossible as they don't (perhaps can't) respect things/society/community the way we do because of our history. Stewy implied this with all they have is crime and that's all they can offer.

 

travel the world, you'll soon realise australia really doesnt have a rich culture compared to the rest of the world. its just a drinking culture

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Bingo, sheltered cultures that stick to themselves don't promote progress as they don't share ideas between each other. so...

 

If white Australia wasn't formed, the indigineous Australians would still be chasing food barefoot with a spear, poor example I know... But the countries your referring to would be doing what they were before any western nations presence.
Is completely correct.

 

More so we've gone through a lot in the 300 year development of our country most noticeably our "tradition" (therefore culture) of the Anzac spirit which was achieved through sacrifice and suffering. People who haven't been brought up to understand this concept (along with others that we Australians enjoy) don't understand it and as such assimilation is near impossible as they don't (perhaps can't) respect things/society/community the way we do because of our history. Stewy implied this with all they have is crime and that's all they can offer.

 

travel the world, you'll soon realise australia really doesnt have a rich culture compared to the rest of the world. its just a drinking culture

you perceive your own culture as normal and banal due to the fact that it is your norm. Of course any culture that differs from this is going to seem rich.

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Maybe our politicians should have though about that before they agreed to help destroy some of these countries.

 

Much of what you've stated in prior posts is conjecture, personal opinon and outright fallacy

 

I question your knowledge of the history of the middle-east, and whether you have actually lived alongside actual refugees of war. I have and it sucked; they fled Iraq in the 80's.

The reality is that no matter what you *think* refugees want or will do, you don't *actually* know. It's diffcult to predict how it will screw up the social structure, so the only rational decision is the economic one, and too much cash is wasted on these people.

 

FACT: The populace is less that 23 mil, and a big percentage don't contribute tax (kids, elderly, abbos)

FACT: The government is funded by tax from the people, or the people working natural resources.

FACT: You can only put so much money in welfare before the economy fails.

FACT: The money spent on Naval ships, housing and processing document-less immigrants could be better spent on schools and Hospitals.

FACT: There are other countries that will take them that are closer, it's just that they don't want to go to those ones.

FACT: Statistically refugees stay on welfare for approximately 5 years, as shown in the Government document previously linked in this thread.

 

So why is it that you think we should let these people in?

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I can bet you it was a bit better before we and the 'world police' decided we'd start telling them what they needed. The topics are connected, and a large part of why some of these people are coming is linked directly or in-directly with Australias participation in the invasion of these countries.

I don't know the solution but i know that simply 'stopping the boats' isn't the solution

 

I'm guessing you're not Kurdish.

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Maybe our politicians should have though about that before they agreed to help destroy some of these countries.

 

Much of what you've stated in prior posts is conjecture, personal opinon and outright fallacy

 

I question your knowledge of the history of the middle-east, and whether you have actually lived alongside actual refugees of war. I have and it sucked; they fled Iraq in the 80's.

The reality is that no matter what you *think* refugees want or will do, you don't *actually* know. It's diffcult to predict how it will screw up the social structure, so the only rational decision is the economic one, and too much cash is wasted on these people.

 

FACT: The populace is less that 23 mil, and a big percentage don't contribute tax (kids, elderly, abbos)

FACT: The government is funded by tax from the people, or the people working natural resources.

FACT: You can only put so much money in welfare before the economy fails.

FACT: The money spent on Naval ships, housing and processing document-less immigrants could be better spent on schools and Hospitals.

FACT: There are other countries that will take them that are closer, it's just that they don't want to go to those ones.

FACT: Statistically refugees stay on welfare for approximately 5 years, as shown in the Government document previously linked in this thread.

 

So why is it that you think we should let these people in?

 

I think most of my points hold water and are not personal opinion. I am simply trying to open some peoples eyes that this is not simply a black and white issue as many would like to believe. I don't think that there is an ideal solution, however, i don't agree that simply closing the door is a good one.

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I can bet you it was a bit better before we and the 'world police' decided we'd start telling them what they needed. The topics are connected, and a large part of why some of these people are coming is linked directly or in-directly with Australias participation in the invasion of these countries.

I don't know the solution but i know that simply 'stopping the boats' isn't the solution

 

I'm guessing you're not Kurdish.

 

No, i have read bits and pieces and heard different stories, but Iraq has payed a hefty price in all of this.

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I can bet you it was a bit better before we and the 'world police' decided we'd start telling them what they needed. The topics are connected, and a large part of why some of these people are coming is linked directly or in-directly with Australias participation in the invasion of these countries. I don't know the solution but i know that simply 'stopping the boats' isn't the solution

 

Your right, stopping the boats is not the solution.

Simply redirecting them to "Australia" *COUGHAMERICACOUGHCOUGH* would be a success.

 

Australia? Why yes.. Paddle this way good undocumented sir.

 

tumblr_le9ftbUOMX1qfu4tho1_400.png

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One more bleeding heart preaching the pitiful emotional argument.

You have done nothing to address the fact that the majority of these people are not genuine refugees and have no desire to assimilate or even work.

Nobody in this thread has expressed disagreement with useful and productive members of society coming to this country. The problem is that most of these people would not know what useful and productive was if the government was to hand them a "dole bludgers guide to priductivity" with every welfare cheque.

 

I think the majority of them want to assimilate and work. While they have not been classified as 'refugees', this does not mean that they aren't.

 

The problem is that most of these people would not know what useful and productive was if the government was to hand them a "dole bludgers guide to priductivity" with every welfare cheque.

 

That's your opinion mate. It wont be easy for them off the get go, but i think they will integrate just fine. I see it everyday.

 

It is a statistical FACT that currently 85% of refugee households are in receipt of centrelink benefits and 60% of refugees are still dependant on centrelink benefits as their primary source of income 5 years after arriving in Australia.

If they wanted to assimilate 5 years would be plenty of time.

 

Also you have still failed to present a suitable alternative. People coming in boats is a problem for 2 reasons. Firstly too many are dying in their attempts and second they are coming in such great numbers that they are forcing rushed decisions on their asylum status. This is causing non genuine refugees to be classed as genuine.

 

Please detail to me how you would stop these people drowning in the sea without encouraging more to come.

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I think most of my points hold water and are not personal opinion. I am simply trying to open some peoples eyes that this is not simply a black and white issue as many would like to believe. I don't think that there is an ideal solution, however, i don't agree that simply closing the door is a good one.

 

You keep talking about trying to open our eyes to reality but you have not provided a single shred of evidence to back up any of your claims. All you have offered is a naieve outlook on a topic you have completely failed to research. Just because you think these people want to assimilate and you think they are nice and humble does not mean they are.

 

You are the only person in this thread who needs to open their eyes to the facts.

 

If you think you are the type to actually bother researching then have a read through the document in my signature. It is not some hippy website who has cherry picked the facts they need to push their adgenda, it is the cold hard truth in all its entirety released by the dept of immigration.

 

The fact is we need to stop the boats so that we can stop these people dying in the sea. Labor are directly responsible for all the deaths since they scrapped the pacific solution after taking over in 2007. Until somebody can come up with something better, nobody has the right to criticise a policy that clearly worked.

 

:edit:

And while you sit there thinking about these poor refugees who just want to live safe and happy in Australia, spare a thought for the Australians who just want to live safe and happy but instead are robbed and beaten by Somali's.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/fear-of-cronullalike-unrest-as-refugee-lawlessness-grows-in-melbourne-20120819-24gkg.html

 

They don't just rob you, even after they have your stuff they beat the shit out of you for fun.

Go on, defend them.

Edited by Chappy

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It is a statistical FACT that currently 85% of refugee households are in receipt of centrelink benefits and 60% of refugees are still dependant on centrelink benefits as their primary source of income 5 years after arriving in Australia.

If they wanted to assimilate 5 years would be plenty of time.

 

While we're here... let's think about this.

 

Centrelink is what $200 (AUD) + a week?

 

How much would they have had/earnt in their home countries? $5/week ? If that?

 

You can see why they stay on welfare.

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I am simply trying to open some peoples eyes that this is not simply a black and white issue as many would like to believe. I don't think that there is an ideal solution, however, i don't agree that simply closing the door is a good one.

 

Of course it's not a black-and-white issue, but it requires a black-and-white solution. Unless there's a clear directive, people will continue to come, resources will continue to be wasted, social conflict will arise and the whole time the taxpaying public are the ones footing the bill.

 

The only thing that sitting on the fence will achieve is provide you with a false sense of moral superiority. Not exactly helpful to the wider public.

 

I think most of my points hold water and are not personal opinion.

 

Which ones?

 

I can bet you it was...

I don't know the solution but i know that...

We wouldn't adopt all their poverty, and or social issues...

If they have a genuine case for assylum, then we should help them...

I think the majority of them want to assimilate and work...

I think they will integrate just fine. I see it everyday...

I think it doesn't help their cause with the amount of racist Australians...

I think some of you still live in a world...

I can bet you it was a bit better before we and the 'world police' decided...

I know that simply 'stopping the boats' isn't the solution...

I think most of my points...

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It is a statistical FACT that currently 85% of refugee households are in receipt of centrelink benefits and 60% of refugees are still dependant on centrelink benefits as their primary source of income 5 years after arriving in Australia.

If they wanted to assimilate 5 years would be plenty of time.

 

While we're here... let's think about this.

 

Centrelink is what $200 (AUD) + a week?

 

How much would they have had/earnt in their home countries? $5/week ? If that?

 

You can see why they stay on welfare.

$5 spent in their own countries is worth $5

$200aus is worth $200 here

 

their not taking centrelink to live it up in a third world country. :hammer:

Edited by samsta

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It is a statistical FACT that currently 85% of refugee households are in receipt of centrelink benefits and 60% of refugees are still dependant on centrelink benefits as their primary source of income 5 years after arriving in Australia.

If they wanted to assimilate 5 years would be plenty of time.

 

While we're here... let's think about this.

 

Centrelink is what $200 (AUD) + a week?

 

How much would they have had/earnt in their home countries? $5/week ? If that?

 

You can see why they stay on welfare.

$5 spent in their own countries is worth $5

$200aus is worth $200 here

 

their not taking centrelink to live it up in a third world country. hammer.gif

Even so, a life on the dole here would be a significant improvement on the quality of life they are used to.

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Vozda, pissoff back to your tent in afganistan. Ofcourse they stay on f**king centrelink, most of them are just free riding f**k ups. simple. Stats dont lie. There are a few genuine ones, which is great, but for the others that come here and abuse our system, its bullshit.

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last night just further cemented why im a racist *milkshake* and most boat people can go step on a landmine.

 

Look at the bright side, at least you didn't get your s15 stolen from a gang of white trash from burwood.

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Vozda, pissoff back to your tent in afganistan. Ofcourse they stay on f**king centrelink, most of them are just free riding f**k ups. simple. Stats dont lie. There are a few genuine ones, which is great, but for the others that come here and abuse our system, its bullshit.

 

Its not just the abuse, I think the abuse is minor, my concern is the downturn of the economy that gives us citizens a hard time of finding work even harder. It's like that south park episode were people from the future come to the present -they took our jeerb

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Ofcourse they stay on f**king centrelink, most of them are just free riding f**k ups. simple. Stats dont lie. There are a few genuine ones, which is great, but for the others that come here and abuse our system, its bullshit.

 

100% why I argued with him for so long.

And the genuine ones also go through the proper channels.

 

No.Body.Likes.A.Que.Jumper.

Especially one that doesn't wanna contribute to the country and people that have just given them everything.

 

Just quickly aswell, i watched that go back to where you came from last night. Looks to have been produced by "The Greens"

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That immigration video does not really seem relevant here, because our main gripe is about these people coming here and NOT working. I wish we had Mexicans here to do the tradie jobs, maybe then they would not be so damn over priced.

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