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ookami

S13 circuit setup.

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I have a S15 that I regularly supersprint in the NSCC (Nissan Sports Car Club) multi club series in NSW.

 

And I have experienced wheels in the air at high speed.

 

I would never remove the rear sway bar from my s15.

 

If you live in NSW and your serious about do quick lap times in a silvia. Get a CAMS licence and join NSCC

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ok people are saying different things, but yeah this is the first I've heard of removing the rear strut brace. Phunky Monkey I'm interested to know how oyu find your car with that much lag. Do you find your self in situations where you have too much power or too laggy? I take it your gearbox gets a work out?

 

I haven't had any issues at all so far, but I'm used to keeping the thing up in the rev range, and as long as you wring it's neck it'll stay on boost without a drama. It would be nice to have a little more power under 4k, as I have to drive the car in 2nd sometimes when I would prefer to be in 3rd, but it's not a major issue.

 

Doing hillclimbs on the other hand gives me grief, and I found myself having to use 1st gear way too much, and clutch dumping second to get it onto boost, not somehting I like to do with semi slicks on, and I finished up that day with a smashed clutch and gearbox... ouch :P

 

As for too much power, not so far!! I adjust my boost according to the track, and how much traction I have. I turn it down on the skidpan, and up on a proper track. The car's off the road now in search of more power... :)

 

 

 

To everyone else, try to hold back those claws people!! To each their own, do whatever works for you... let's try and keep the cattyness away from this section...

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What Phunky said abotu lag....the only time i have found it to be a problem is when im catching, trying to overtake a slower car which happens to be pretty quick in a straight line. Ie a purple R33 GTR on raod tyres that was killing my corner speed so corner exit i was off boost and couldnt get past :(

 

In this instance i would love to have had the extra 600cc and the power i have at 5,000rpm at 4,000rpm.

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So the best thing to do after reading all this is try a day at the track with your rear swaybar (aftermarket or not) in, and then another day (or same day, if you can pull it out at the track) without it. Check out the times, and how it feels, then make your own decision.

 

But before all that, get out to the track with the basic stuff (slicks, extra cooling, upgraded brakes), lay down a few laps, then start fine tuning. You'll have a much better idea of what you want from your car.

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you can test the swaybar very quickly by removing the link on one side and comparing lap times.

In my experience the rear sway bar has been beneficial, but I would steer clear of running one that's too large.

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Erm.....most of you guys seem to be losing track of the original question!

 

There are a few things to do before you get anywhere near fidling with swaybars, like getting out on the track! If you have never been on the track before, I dont care what the car has or its setup, you are not going to be anywhere near utilizing its capabilities on that first day!

 

There is no point in turning up with all the gear and no idea. I love beating those guys! hehe. They come up to you after and ask what massive turbo you have - cause they have XYZ turbo and you just flew past like they were standing still?? What you have done to the car, Tomei this, Tein that, JUN wotsits, why is it so fast??? When you tell them its basically stock with 130KW at the wheels and skyline brakes and you see the all colour drain from their face... haha, tops! :D

 

I think you have the basics covered with those parts listed, just need some good brake pads and a track orientated wheel alignment. I also recomend the Ferodo DS2500 as a great all round pad.

 

I also agree with liz, to go out on street tyres at least for the first time, so everything is happening at a much lower speed. Then when you are comfortable and have learnt the car's limits, bolt up some semi's or slick's and watch the times tumble.

 

What other parts you need will be determined by how the car performs, and what area's need work, including the organic speed limiter - the driver! Get some quality instruction. Remember that what works for one guy isnt going to necessarily work for you. Different drivers have different styles and require different setups. As you can see above! :P

 

Just get out there and drive!

 

Tim

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salad: i'll tell my suspension guy that sets up tarmac rally cars for Targa that he's being doing it wrong!

 

he will be impressed with my findings, that a guy on ns.com said he should change the spring rates.

 

thanks.

 

hmm funny how F1, V8 supercars, NASCARs, Super GT, WRC etc cars all run adjustable swaybars

but nah, your right your suspension guy must know a lot more than their suspension guys

 

but seriously, has he experimented with many different spring rates?

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Having no rear swaybar will help keep the inside rear wheel on the ground, but it'll also cause extra body roll, which will be trying to lift the inside front wheel off the ground.

It's all a compromise really, and it depends on where you need the most grip.

If you're cornering very fast there will be very little weight on the inside wheels anyway (why do you think you can ride ripple strips at the apex and barely feel it?) so you're better off reducing the roll a bit (to keep the camber right on the outside wheels) and transferring extra weight to the outside - which is what swaybars do.

 

Obviously you're going to need a good diff to keep drive going to the outside wheel when the inside one's in the air :)

 

The aim is really to have the car's grip levels well balanced front to rear (and left to right), and depending on springs and weight, that will change the swaybar requirements.

Some cars might work best with none at the back, and some might work best with a very heavy one at the back.

I usually upgrade the front one more than the rear on Silvias, but with the spring and damper combos I've used it's definitely been worth having a swaybar on the rear.

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I really could give a flying fukc whether running a sway bar on the rear is worth it or not, I want the basic info i need to semi set my car up and i'll make changes from there. adam-trd is you really want to argue about whether rear sway bars or good or if your suspension guy is gods gift to S13 start your own bloody thread, that is on topic. Thanks for all your other advice guys. Has anyone else got anything else to add besides anything about the freakin rear sway bar!!!

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chassis braces make a shitload of difference, i run front and rear strut braces, b-pillar brace, nismo power brace and a c-pillar brace with an x-bar that joins to the seatbelt mount holes in the back seat area. every time i add another brace the car handles better and better. custom fabrication is the go

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is boxing in the caster rod brackets make much difference?

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well you may not wanna do this but this is my experience and in an r32 aswell

i've always had 8/6 coilovers, and have had tein, tanabe, cusco and hsd. i have no bought some bilsteins with eibach 7kg/mm springs (only front pair though, still runnin cuscos in the rear) and the difference is amazing. bumps are actually absorbed now instead of skipped over which is unlike the back which still just skips over bumps and then slides.

honestly, my car has never handled this well before

 

i still cant get over the difference in the quality of shocks. you will also find that most of the big tuning houses use european shocks (bilstein, ohlins, dynamic, sachs, etc) instead of japanese stuff. with the exception of houses that make their own shocks, ie hks who have to use their own stuff.

 

this wont be cheap... but it does make a big difference

 

a cheap very effective mod is castor rods. its camber when you need it so you dont need to run heaps of camber and still get a fair amount of grip for braking.

front strut braces are good, but rear ones are almost useless as all the rear suspension components are connected to a subframe and not to the chassis. get pineapples for the rear to tighten up the subframe to the chassis.

 

but for engine stuff, you should just need support stuff, like big radiator, oil cooler that sorta stuff, just so you dont break anything.

other than that, just get out there and have some fun

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To get out there to have some fun, you don't need alot.

I've upgraded the radiator, running higher temp pads (Ferodo DS2500s) but stupidly didn't change brake fluid (pedal sunk but the pads still seem to grip?).

At the same time I also put gauges to monitor, water temp, oil temp and oil pressure which let me know when I should back off, or go for a cool down lap or... when I have no oil left which touch wood, hasn't happened :)

Depending on how serious you are, and how many laps you intend on doing, an oil cooler would also be a good idea. A service before hand couldn't hurt either?

 

As extras, I ran RE55S with some suspension bits and pieces... it's an expensive hobby I can tell you that :P

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is boxing in the caster rod brackets make much difference?

yeah it does, just do what i did, box them in and weld a bar between the two. then you have effectively made a nismo power brace for the front without it costing very much

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Was thinking about this on my nightly jog. What temps do slicks get up to. Cars at Sprint using slicks are often slower because they never get up to temp or grippy. A bit like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cups, great tyres, But at a Sprint round will never get decent levels of grip out of them

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yeah that's a good point.

You'd need very soft slicks to get up to temp quick enough, and it'd be a fine line between being hot enough and being too hot over the timed laps.

Last time I drove a car on slicks at a sprint they never got up to temperature.

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START WITH TYRES........

 

Upgrade brakes

 

choose suspension setup according to tyres.

 

Modify engine to suit tractive limit of tyres.

 

Everything should be built to ensure maximum tractvie limit of tyres is being utilised at all times.

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But i know of basic R33 GTST running semi slicks and off the shelf suspension doing 60sec laps? ????

 

Also an EVO 8 that does the Sprint Track in 59.30 sec . Power 195awkw, Dunlop D02G's , 3" Exhaust & ECU. Std nBrakes with EBC Red Stuff pads & braided lines and std suspension

 

Is that supposed to be fast? I've driven a totally stock JZA80 to a 60.01 with 225/16 semi's only..

apart from that it was dead stock + the added shittiness of a aussie compliance cat converter

 

My drift car also ran a 59sec 3 years ago with 165kw atw running on RA1 225/16's and stock S13 brakes

 

 

 

As for the advice from adam-trd? Sure give it a go, but it seems to conflict with traditional thinking.

 

oh, and adam-trd got his advice on the swawbar from me :)

but what would I know? my 180SX used to lap QR in the 56's 3 years ago with nothing more engine wise than a T28 and 185 kw atw :D

 

I usually stay in the drift section of NS but this is hell funny :lol:

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Yeah but you've done more laps at QR than just about anyone :lol:

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Yeah but you've done more laps at QR than just about anyone :lol:

 

hmmm, can't argue with that Neil :blush:

 

can't wait till I can drive at Lakeside again though!! Sorry JT, it is my fav. :ph34r:

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I have a S15 that I regularly supersprint in the NSCC (Nissan Sports Car Club) multi club series in NSW.

 

And I have experienced wheels in the air at high speed.

 

I would never remove the rear sway bar from my s15.

 

If you live in NSW and your serious about do quick lap times in a silvia. Get a CAMS licence and join NSCC

how do you go about joining it? i'm intersted

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Well my replacement car is finally on the road! (and hopefully the track this week)

 

S13 Silvia

S14 SR20DE with PFC, etc

S15 6 speed gearbox

GTR 2way LSD and axles

R32 GTR front brakes

Hello Kitty sticker

Various suspension bits and pieces, which will probably be changing soon

(S15 front struts with camber tops, Bilstein rear coilovers)

 

The car has been fairly thoroughly stripped out for lightness, and came up at 1024kg with a full tank of fuel and factory seats.

In "race trim" it'll be under a ton.

Weight distribution is about 52% front, and 52% right.

Cross weights came up at about 51.5% but haven't been adjusted at all yet.

 

I can still pull a fair bit of weight out of it, but I've kept the windows and stuff for now (for convenience and security), and haven't done a full rewiring of the car yet after getting sick of it on the drift car :P

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Is that supposed to be fast? I've driven a totally stock JZA80 to a 60.01 with 225/16 semi's only..

apart from that it was dead stock + the added shittiness of a aussie compliance cat converter

 

My drift car also ran a 59sec 3 years ago with 165kw atw running on RA1 225/16's and stock S13 brakes

 

LOL...no idea :) I have never ever been near the place, so.... someone mentioned 60seconds as being the ballpark of a good pace...and it seems your comments support that a well driven pretty std car can pump out the times the S13 on slicks in question is pulling

 

 

oh, and adam-trd got his advice on the swawbar from me :)

but what would I know? my 180SX used to lap QR in the 56's 3 years ago with nothing more engine wise than a T28 and 185 kw atw :D

 

I usually stay in the drift section of NS but this is hell funny :lol:

 

I dont know what you know :D Plenty of ppl have different advice, fark knows if any of us have a clue. :lol:

 

Your car seems quick, so congrats. What sort of weight do you need to get the car down to if you are wanting to pull those sorts of times with modest amounts of grunt?

 

DumHed, how ear piercing is the thing at full noise? Cool that you have gone NA

 

Also, interested to know what tyres? Id love to know if anyone has back to back tested a variety of semis...

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I don't know how loud it is at full noise yet, but it's stupidly mega loud at half noise :P

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yep, and you don't even need a turbo to do it!

 

A straight through 3" exhaust with next to no muffling certainly does it though :P

I've also found the intake is mega loud at certain revs / speeds (around 90km/h in 6th I think, but I don't have a working speedo at the moment :))

 

I can't wait to get the proper tyres on and see how it really handles!

The turn in is pretty amazing, but the rear tyres are useless so it's a bit of a handful, especially with the 2way!

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Well my replacement car is finally on the road! (and hopefully the track this week)

 

S13 Silvia

S14 SR20DE with PFC, etc

S15 6 speed gearbox

GTR 2way LSD and axles

R32 GTR front brakes

Hello Kitty sticker

Various suspension bits and pieces, which will probably be changing soon

(S15 front struts with camber tops, Bilstein rear coilovers)

 

Hello Kitty Sticker :blink: The ultimate performance part :ph34r:

 

Dumhed, Glen told me you had a new Silvia on the road, I thought it was just your wifes after he mentioned the Hello Kitty sticker :lol: Did you permanantly borrow it or did you pick up another one?

 

Good to see it's NA, this means you can use the turbo from your last Silvia for the Gas Turbine project :woot:

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What sort of grunt can you get out of the SR20DE? I saw on a website recently a BTCC Primera SR. for sale..claimed 290hp odd.

 

How much weight do you save by not running a turbo? 40kg? Figure there has to be a bit of weight in the cooler, turbo, pipes etc

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